1 00:00:09,019 --> 00:00:12,699 We begin this episode with a video of Margaret Thatcher, 2 00:00:12,699 --> 00:00:19,699 who was Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1979 until 1990. 3 00:00:19,930 --> 00:00:23,270 In her final parliamentary debate as Prime Minister, 4 00:00:23,270 --> 00:00:25,419 the opposition attacked her policy record. 5 00:00:25,419 --> 00:00:28,099 Simon Hughes (Liberal Democrats): There is no doubt that the Prime Minister, 6 00:00:28,099 --> 00:00:31,660 has in many ways, achieved substantial success. 7 00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:39,700 There is one statistic, that I understand is not however challenged. 8 00:00:39,879 --> 00:00:46,600 And that is that over her 11 years, the gap between the richest 10 percent and 9 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,450 the poorest 10 percent in this country has widened substantially. 10 00:00:50,450 --> 00:00:55,120 How can she say at the end of her chapter of British politics, 11 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:01,079 that she can justify many people in a constituency such as mine being relatively much poorer off, 12 00:01:01,079 --> 00:01:05,799 much less well housed and much less well provided 13 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:08,399 than it was in 1979? 14 00:01:08,399 --> 00:01:14,719 Surely she accepts that that is not a record that she or any Prime Minister can be proud of. 15 00:01:15,689 --> 00:01:18,909 The frame is clear: the poor have become poorer, 16 00:01:18,909 --> 00:01:20,649 and the rich have become richer. 17 00:01:20,649 --> 00:01:23,060 This is a classic frame. 18 00:01:23,069 --> 00:01:25,619 How does Thatcher reframe the debate? 19 00:01:25,619 --> 00:01:29,740 Thatcher: People on all levels of income are better 20 00:01:29,740 --> 00:01:33,929 off than they were in 1979. 21 00:01:33,929 --> 00:01:39,459 The honorable member is saying that he would rather that the poor were poorer, 22 00:01:39,459 --> 00:01:43,359 provided that the rich were less rich. 23 00:01:43,359 --> 00:01:47,249 That way you will never create the wealth for better social services, 24 00:01:47,249 --> 00:01:48,499 as we have. 25 00:01:48,499 --> 00:01:49,759 And what a policy! 26 00:01:49,759 --> 00:01:53,520 Yes, he would rather have the poor poorer, 27 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,279 provided that the rich were less rich. That is the Liberal policy. 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:57,780 Hughes: No. 29 00:01:57,780 --> 00:01:58,840 Thatcher: Yes,it came out! 30 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,060 He did not intend it to, but it did. 31 00:02:01,070 --> 00:02:04,499 […] Jim Sillars (Scottish National Party): The Prime Minister is aware that I detest 32 00:02:04,499 --> 00:02:08,910 every single one of her domestic policies, and I have never hidden that fact. 33 00:02:08,910 --> 00:02:12,290 […] Thatcher: I think that the honorable Gentleman knows 34 00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:17,570 that I have the same contempt for his socialist policies as the people of east Europe, 35 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:20,960 who have experienced them, have for theirs. 36 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:27,260 I think I must have hit the right nail on the head when I pointed out that the logic 37 00:02:27,270 --> 00:02:30,390 of those policies is that they would rather have the poor poorer. 38 00:02:30,390 --> 00:02:35,510 Once they start to talk about the gap, they would rather the gap were that – [indicating] 39 00:02:35,510 --> 00:02:44,670 – down here, not that – [indicating] – but that – [indicating]. 40 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,400 So long as the gap is smaller, so long as the gap is smaller, 41 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:54,980 they would rather have the poor poorer. 42 00:02:54,980 --> 00:02:58,710 You do not create wealth and opportunity that way. 43 00:02:58,710 --> 00:03:02,590 You do not create a property-owning democracy that way. 44 00:03:02,590 --> 00:03:07,820 Thatcher’s reframe is clear: the rich may have become richer, 45 00:03:07,820 --> 00:03:10,560 but the poor have also become richer. 46 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,380 The gap between rich and poor has indeed widened, but what is the alternative? 47 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:18,700 If the gap is narrowed, the rich will be poorer, 48 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:22,200 but the poor will be poorer, too. 49 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,100 What is the underlying pattern in this example? 50 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:29,300 Once again, we are dealing with a distinction between 51 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:31,140 policy, on the one hand, 52 00:03:31,180 --> 00:03:34,560 and principles or values, on the other. 53 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,760 One of the core values of many social liberal and social democratic parties is equality 54 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,400 and equal opportunities for all. 55 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,000 The values of many right-wing and conservative parties are based on the idea of the free market, 56 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,160 entrepreneurship and personal initiative should be rewarded. 57 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,560 But there’s something special about values. 58 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,380 Almost everyone supports the idea of equal opportunities for all, 59 00:04:00,380 --> 00:04:02,980 including those on the right. 60 00:04:02,990 --> 00:04:05,980 Likewise, almost everyone agrees that the market and 61 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:09,620 enterprise are important, including those on the left. 62 00:04:09,620 --> 00:04:13,600 In other words, we often share our opponents’ values. 63 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:20,600 Our antagonism and resistance have much more to do with the downsides of those values. 64 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:23,160 What are these downsides? 65 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,849 A strong emphasis on the value of the free market can give rise to a harsh, 66 00:04:27,849 --> 00:04:34,449 “sink or swim” society in which 10% to 15% of the population lives below the poverty line. 67 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:41,120 A strong emphasis on the value of equality can result in a dull and drab society in which 68 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:47,280 mediocrity rules and excellence is neither appreciated nor rewarded. 69 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:51,139 In his frame, Thatcher’s opponent tries to activate the 70 00:04:51,139 --> 00:04:55,830 downsides of Thatcher’s values, namely that the United Kingdom has become 71 00:04:55,830 --> 00:04:58,910 a harsh “sink or swim” society. 72 00:04:59,020 --> 00:05:03,980 He specifies the policy implications: lower wages for the poor, 73 00:05:03,990 --> 00:05:07,659 inferior housing and less financial security. 74 00:05:07,659 --> 00:05:13,129 Thatcher’s attempt to reframe the debate takes a similar approach. 75 00:05:13,129 --> 00:05:21,049 She accuses her opponents of advocating a mediocre society in which everyone comes out below average. 76 00:05:21,789 --> 00:05:24,949 This is the downside of her opponents’ values. 77 00:05:24,949 --> 00:05:31,760 She also specifies the policy implications: lower wages for everyone and inferior social 78 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:36,289 services due to a lack of resources. 79 00:05:36,289 --> 00:05:39,469 Both players use the same framing strategy. 80 00:05:39,469 --> 00:05:40,289 Who wins? 81 00:05:40,289 --> 00:05:44,110 Well, that depends on your political views. 82 00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:47,389 This brings us to a new strategy in the game of framing and reframing. 83 00:05:47,389 --> 00:05:51,279 First, activate the downsides of your opponent’s 84 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,679 values and second, make that downside specific for the world of policy. 85 00:05:56,490 --> 00:06:03,009 Thatcher’s belief in the value of the free market results in a society that is too harsh. 86 00:06:03,009 --> 00:06:05,479 This is the downside of the free market. 87 00:06:05,479 --> 00:06:07,039 The policy implications? 88 00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:10,800 Lower wages for the poor and inferior social services. 89 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,020 No, says Thatcher. 90 00:06:13,020 --> 00:06:18,920 The value of equality of the honourable gentlemen results in a mediocre society. 91 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,800 This is the downside of equality. 92 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,220 And the policy implications? 93 00:06:23,220 --> 00:06:26,520 Lower wages for everyone. 94 00:06:26,529 --> 00:06:30,300 Finally, politics is also about theatre. 95 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:35,909 Thatcher’s power resides not only in her words but in her entire performance: 96 00:06:35,909 --> 00:06:37,669 her voice, her body language, 97 00:06:37,669 --> 00:06:42,389 her attire, her unflinching attitude and her humor. 98 00:06:42,389 --> 00:06:45,110 Take a look at her answer to the next question. 99 00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:50,210 ‘Would she tell us whether she intends to continue her own personal fight against a 100 00:06:50,210 --> 00:06:53,810 single currency and an independent central bank, when she leaves office? 101 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,180 No, she is going to be the governor! 102 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:18,620 [Laughing] Order. 103 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:21,170 Prime Minister… 104 00:07:21,170 --> 00:07:23,160 Thatcher: What a good idea!